ashley: okay, we will find out tomorrow night. they give her being here. we appreciate it. that is in for "lou dobbs tonight." thank you for joining us and we will see you tomorrow night. good night. ezekiel voters have yet to decide, but apparently economists already have. it is mitt romney by a mile. welcome, everybody, i and neil cavuto. since the cnn money poll is the only one that i know of that focuses on economists and only 17 of them have back, tell me if you aren't also amazed by this. they think that mitt romney is better for our economy. nine of 17 of these guys do that. only three haveknopick. still, i find it a telling one. especially when you recall it was the obama administration that brought about hundreds of economists supported them.

the very best among them, clearly not being stimulated. the bloom is off the obama rose. by a ratio of three to one, their hope is for change. this is hardly an endorsement from mitt romney is one of the economist put it. obama does not understand business and rummy does not understand how to govern. so pick your poison. the fact that most of the economists prefer mitt romney's poison speaks volumes. it speaks volumes about how economist have had it with mitt romney's end obama's poison. romney might be more likely to get congress to do something, whereas obama has shown that he cannot. allen sinai says that romney is more likely to cut the growth of

government itself. well, hope springs eternal, i guess, but these are among the finest economic minds of the country, many of them supporting -arack obama early on. until now. i don't know whether economists and their shifting views translate to the voters shifting views, but it is noteworthy, little bit more than 24 hours ahead of the first debate, that for the biggest numbers among us, the debate is not settled. barack obama and his time is p. whether economists then the voter. hadley heath, when you think of that? >> inside of the beltway, we like to think about this.

people outside of the beltway understand that this administration's effort to revive the economy has failed. it is that simple. neil: what do you think commentary? >> the president obama looks nothing like the candidate obama. he talked about lowering the deficit in half, not redistributing wealth. and not, as he said, hurting the taxpayer and gtting rid of broad and things like that. i think these economists look at numbers and they see reality, they featu $6 trillion in debt. and they figure it is time to move on. neil: having said that, they seem to have crunched the numbers and looked on the weakness of this recovery and concluded maybe a fresh start is in order.

but doesn't factor in a smart money angle that we are missing? smart money seems to be saying that there is not mh money for this recovery to be had. >> will look at their records. we have president obama who hasn't had any experience in the private sector and we have governor romney who does understand. america, yes, we do need a ceo in chief. we also need someone who understands that the business leadership to be able to broker and work in washington where there is a lot of polarized politics. governor romney is adjusting licies that democrats and republicans can agree. we need to simplify the tax code, we need to reform the regulatory state, these are things that will help business across-the-board. neil: it comes at a time when ceos are hedging their bets right now. economists might be in that area

to prove to me that things will get better kind of group. what are those i the know, who follow earnings, who follow trends, what are they telling you? what is it that all of you are saying that maybe a lot of folks are missing or even appreciating? >> we have to recognize higher taxes and more spending by a government is not going to work going forward.

candidate obama right now for the next four years, about lowering the deficit. every now and then, there has been no wish to do it, no move to do it come until somebody gets undone,. neil: here's another question talking about economist. what if it's worse than they think it is. what we are headed into another recession. as gary pointed out, they are very at the least warning of a slowdown. not exactly robust demand here. but what if it is bigger than those who have been noting things slowing. what for the second straight quarter, earnings slow in general. are we there? what evening? >> i do not think we are there at this moment.

i think the possibility exists. the averages are in our favor in the united states is doing better than what i thought it was going to be doing. >> are we benefiting because -- as awful as we are, when you look abroad when you look at the stronger countries and how they are unaveling, france comes to mind, brinton is in no great shape. i think we have a political environment that has a lack. >> i blame the president for that. i think that we will not be impervious to slowdown the rest of the world. because a good part of our s&p earnings come from overseas. we will not be improving.

>> tentative management, by any measurement, not that you're hearing from the economist in their polls, but the deficit is up 300%. national debt is up 70%. unemployment, i agree with, all of the indicators are saying that we are not coming out of the slowdow because they are not solution based. these perilous times -- it doesn't make any sense. there is a degree of arrogance that i find very hard to understand. neil: what are the markets selling us?

the trend is their friend and my friend. what he say that? >> i think it is a reflection from whence we came. we had a terrible job in 2000 and 2009. my concern would be, i think, we are more than fully valued here. i think corporate earnings are going to start to wane. i think that we have the risk of a sizable decline in the market. neil: when you say the rest, what kind of decline? >> 20% from where we're at right now. that could have been. >> thank you very much. neil: joseph, thank you so much,

an institution on wall street. the debate is on. we are live tomorrow. we will go right through the night with heavy hitting, like the former deck commission cochair, we also have senator john thune and los angeles mayor antonio villaraigosa. meanwhile, while the candidates debate over the direction of the country, companies are being scared right out of the country. then, the guy who stuffed himself in an overhead bin. a 100-dollar be. he is here to make his case. washington is jumping in. the health care takeover could nearly 1 billion people around the world

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neil: companies are packing up so they don't have to pay up. there is a new cato study showing high corporate taxes are driving businesses out of here. the u.s. rate is nearly twice the international average. david asman says that is a job killer. >> that is a job killer. they have a corporate rate of 18%, ours is 35%. this is sending businesses out of the country. what is really ridiculous is

these high rates. just hang with me for a second. if you look at the chart, you can see that the most income from our taxes come from individual taxes. the third bar is corporate taxes and you can see the 7.9%. now, we have about $200 billion from corporate taxes. that is how much our government received from corporations. that was for prfits in the year 2011. $2 trillion. if you can figure it out, that's a 10% tax rate. in other words, there are so many deducons and special deals for the high rollers, the big people. even at 35%, we don't get a good deal. neil: mitt romney got in trouble when he tried to clarify just

that view. but i'm not going to lower taxes as much as you think, i'm going to get rid of a lot of deductions and he left himself open to critics who said wait a minute, you were tax cuts are worth the paper they are printed on. but the goal is to get to a simpler tax code that when you takout some of the extraneous write-offs and allowances, credits, etc., and that he will get it something that makes it a black-and-white case,. >> and there is a question which is why don't politicians wanted. you would assume that they would want more revenue. it could potentially bring in more revenue. that is what happened in canada. our neighbors to the north. they have a 90% rate right now and it came way down. they didn't lose any revenue. they brought a lot of businesses back. why do politicians want us? with a flat rate, you can't use the tax code to punish enemies and reward friends. politicians always want to use

the tax code to do certain things. president obama loves his green agenda. he loves community lending programs. also, things that he can encourage businesses to do with tax policies. oh, i will give you a credit for this or that. it is much better for businesses. they don't have to pay all the lawyers and the accountants. but it's not good for the politicians because they can't force corporations to do what they want them to do. >> the simpler the better. there is no mystery to that. >> ironically, the simpler the better for the tax man, too. eventually as tax rates lower, all of these companies, they don't have to spend the billions for lawyers anthey can focus on building widgets and get more tax revenues to the government. >> they have to be something thank you, david asman. get ready to pay out.

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neil: cities and states are struggling and union pension costs keep rising. jim demint is trying to stop government from bailing out those plans if they go bust. the struggling economy will be a big focus tomorrow night. and that is the arizona mayor. ahead of the big debate. pushing for bipartisan solutions. mayor, it's very good to have

you. both sides talking and moving the ball forward. what kind of progress are you making? >> well, we make a lot of progress, on the mayor side. we talk as mayors and not as democrats or republicans. it is funny, you come up with solutions and come up with ways to work together. it's a novel approach. neil: what is the ratio these days that you are finding agreement on that when washington they just can't come to the agreement of spending versus revenue or even what kind of spending and what kind of revenue. how are our uber perceiving or would he recommend and? >> in the cities we don't have the luxury of taking things down the road. we have to balance the their budgets. which means that when revenues go down can't make ends meet, you have to do something to change the way you do business.

in mesa, arizona and many other cities, we had our public safety change the way we provide services. we went into places that other people may be one of gone. we saw thepickup garbage and answer and so we have to get creative and mobile solutions other than debate philosophy. and i think that is the one thing that our state legislature serves and congress can lear from cities. >> i always think that we he a choice between either you like those services, you keep them and pay more for them, or you cut them back. what do you do? do you do a combinaon? do you and have you advocated a combination ofsomething, are you going to charge more raise taxes in an area? were you doi? >> you do whatever you need to.

we have done both. we haven't raised taxes, but our citizens who voted on a couple of occasions to invest themselves and to tax thselves, we have changed the way we deliver services. we streamline the department. neil: it's not all or nothing. a lot of democrats in washington lookout is raining and the growth of entitlement that is akin to throwing granny off the cliff. republicans look at closing credits and loopholes that allow some to escape with raising taxes and to get that dogmatic on both extremes so that nothing moves forward, and nothing gets done. >> what you find is that after a while, it's not a political issue anymore. it's a mathematical issue. you make certain choices. because the numbers just don't add up. so you have to make the tough choices. you go to your citizens and you ask what they want. i think sometimes the citizenry and the politicians are on

completely different pages. we don't get that luxury is much as the cities. we run into our constituents in the grocery store. we hear about it. >> i think mayors here mo than anyone. god bless you, there. that is a tough job. but i am curious about one thing. i have a theory that once the election passes, no matter who wins, maybe we do make progress on some of these, you know, issues. i don't think it's just going to be a kick the can down the road thing. i tend to think that once we are past this, progress is made. when you think? >> maybe you are naïve, but i hope you are right. that is what the public demands,

and i think there are good people in washington that have been overwhelmed by this title wave of the system that we have and when they are not faced with reelection, when they are faced with the reality of the problem, hopefully they can come up with this across the country. we have seen us when we have been faced with real dilemmas. >> ronald reagan himself said. >> it doesn't work that way. neil: thank you, sir. well, it sounds like simpson-bowles and it smells like simpson-bowles. it even has the same savings, almost exact savings as simpson-bowles. why more than a year later our senators coming up with a pistol clip avoiding measure that is pretty much simpson-bowles?

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or click to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. neil: think of it as them symbols withouthe simpson were the simpson-bowles. there he tax increases that collectively shaved about $4 trillion over the next decade. that is the same plan that they all but had last year. and the automatic spending cuts thatink in as of now at the end of this year. here is what i find most striking. it is almost identical to the

deck commission plan of the house and senate, all but relegateto collecting dust last year. no matter, at least they are entertaining series is now. the question now is who signs up? a big problem last year and i suspect it is election year and an even bigger problem last year. still, the election is not too far away and hope springs eternal for progress after election day. these guys clearly see the writing on the wall. let's just hope that their colleagues respond before all of our backs are up against that wall. my next guest says they can do this, but is there the widespread bipartisan will to follow through on this michael

reagan. that is the issue whether mitt romney ets elected, they show the will to do things that are not always popular. i think that is exactly right. we faced some very large problems. we have this so-called fiscal cliff that threatens the economy and florida's tax hikes and organized spending cuts. we are implementing the debt over the coming years. il: that is one of the reasons

that paul ryan did not vote for it he dodged the tough decision away. he wanted it to be even deeper and address these entitlement costs. but critics say that he is not effectively ceded mr. do you think he does that were changes that initiative tomorrow night? >> i think the governor romney is going to lay out a compelling case our debt problems in the risk of enormous tax hikes on the population that would stagnate growth and put us on a path with increased spending.

rising standards of living, and contrasting that with president obama's vision of a social welfare state, moving towards this competent socio- economic expectations. neil: you know the problem may be that mitt romney has, and i mean this in a positive way, he is too smart for words. in other words, he has the iq argument down, but not necessarily the ronald reagan approach out there. so he always sounds le he's walking and talking about it and never explaining about basic human being terms with choking on a 16 trillion-dollar debt means. so it gets to be an ademic discussion. i suspect if you g that route, he will lose people in this debate and very well this

election. what do you think? >> there is no doubt that mitt romney is very smart and we need someone who understand the details as well as the broad vision. when you look at the debt that president obama has added in his four years in what he projects in his current budget, he would add as much or more debt or a typical taxpaying family is four years of college on a new home. that is her family. the fact is that this can be related to what the burden is on our families today and on our children. neil: so you are saying -- 60 cents on the dollar for spending. we are talking about the debt, embrace it, get in front of it,? >> i think this is a court issue confronting our economic tax policy in the next few years. in the next few months, the next two years to stop us on us being

a welfare state. no doubt about that. neil: i will say this, it is the defining issue of our time. michael, thank you so much, always a pleasure. >> same here, great to talk to you. neil: why $100 separates you from your birthday suit and the most memorable fight of your life. i want you to meet these people max ♪

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[ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. neil: leave it to the folks at spirit when you look at the airline ticket. a $100 fee for checking a bag of the day. spirit airlines the eo says that smart buyers are ready to either

pay that charge would just go commando. >> $100, are you nuts? >> the whole reason we charge for carry-on bags which we started back in 2010, which was to make the gay process much faster and to stop these costly delays. since we have put the program in place, we board and the plane really quickly and customers like that aspect of it. >> dear passengers know that, then, is everyone charged that? is there a way to get around that? >> well,here are lots of ways. he paid for your back online come you can do it at a kiosk

from the ticket counter. neil: when you pay online come how much is a? >> if you are a member, it's $20 red. neil: but if you pay it at the gate, it's $100? >> those who find out when they're online, there is a 100-dollar charge for that back, will they throw the bag down and or just stripped-down? >> no, we don't think so because we are being very forward about this. our customers are smart. they understand. they understand what we have done is found ways to make self-service and pass those savings on to them in terms of the fares. neil: what about the ones that don't know? >> they will be told at the airport before they go to security, pay for that bad right now cause it's going to be morere expensive at the gate.

>> here is why i don't think that's true. the total price to customers pay, the fair plus with the is in almost all cases less than the price that they would pay on another airline that may bungle their product. people fly us because they save money and that is why we think about it. neil: how much are you making on this? >> in profit i can't say, but it's about 40% of our revenues. it is a significant piece of the legislature. neil: so these galvanizing fees that you are charging folks on but most of them when they get through the gates come you are making a pretty penny on them. >> we are not charging fees because we go on top of an 80-dollar fare. neil: you just said they make up 40% of your revenue. >> but the fares are very low.

we are the transparency leader and we tell customers everything they know in advance some of them make a decision. why do you want to subsidize another customer who does not plan as well as you. neil: okay, i change my changed my mind about everything i just said laugh out loud. [laughter] besides the luggage, whether you have a diet coke versus ago, whether you are talking to the stewardess or the railing of the pilot, online, you pay all of this but it's getting to be a real pain for flyers. a lot of them are going to revolt and say no. >> you can go to a restaurant that has n all you can eat that day that includes the desert and a salad and everything and that may be what you want to do. but there are others who say i only want to pay for what i

actually use. we take it very low fare. eighty dollars, and we say you only pay for the extras that you use and you save money on the things that you don't. we find that the people at spirit like that approach because it puts the power in their hands. they decide they are that they are willing to back a little bit less. >> at the rate you are going, people will be wearing clothes and they will be discounted or spirit sitting on a plane. which could be with you moneymaker. [talking over each other] [talking over each other] neil: you are so creative and i am giving you time on that one. a few. we very much appreciate having you. lesson learned, and message out there. you were warned. member, remember so you are not surprised. well, we claimed it was not a

government takeover of health care. we just learned today that that wasn't quite right? >> there was a lot of talk aut government takeover of health care. >> i say rather than making wild claims, my health care proposal is part of the government takeover of the entire health care seems they haven't been moving much lately. but things are starting to turn around because of business people like you. and regions is here to help. with the experience and service to keep things rolling. from business loans to cash management, we want to be your partner moving forward. so switch to regions. and let's get going. together.

neil: be exchanges getting strange. thirty-seven states are unable or unwilling to set up health care exchanges required in the present health care law. if the states don't do it, uncle sam well. this is going to make things even worse.

what happens now? >> what happens now is the federal government has to step in. they have to fund these exchanges. the amount of money was not part of the original estimates. we have already doubled the original cost of implementing the aca. now, the price tag has gone up, but only in 13 states, and maybe not even. that is really concerning f for debate that we we are having on how to bring the country down the deficit neutral. he was going to pay for this? this is a contradiction to what the president said before about not establishing a government run program. because that is exactly where we're headed. >> what would these exchanges supposed to do were ultimately going to do? >> well, these exchanges and the rules governing them were set up as a kind of trap or states. because basically they were told

that you guys have a choice. you can set these exchanges up for the federal government will do it for you. then they looked at this and said oh, my goodness, the rules and requirements and regulations are really complicated. this is going to be a huge pack. we don't want anything to do with it. we are going to let the federal government handled this. neil: you don't have to know that this looks fake. you know that the government is very much taking over health care as we know it. >> yes, and you know, we have framed the situation as peter

said, they have their backs up against the wall. there is no way the states will get ready or have this by the open woman of october 2013 have in place. what happens? of course, the government is going to swoop in and say, that's okay, we will handle this, we will define the benefits that all of the consumers can buy in the exchanges. you reduce competition and start having costs go up, and we really believe that the government is going to have the exchanges up in the year? if you look again at the progress that the states have made what happens? you have employers saying that we are not going to provide benefits to our employees and we will let them buy insurance for the exchangers. >> we are getting more and of

that could affect everything we are finding out the 6 million that will be paying this. versus the 4 million from a few weeks ago. we are finding out we are looking at the wisdom of just paying a penalty rather than the cost of providing insurance itself. this is effectively a government takeover and ultimately, a single provider just as the government wanted. >> you know, as we were told, we have to pass a law to find out what is in it. now we found out. >> i do want to defend -- what they are doing is exercising their right not to put u up with federal government restrictions.

if they opt out of the exchanges in the medicaid expansion is the supreme court decision allows them to do, we will heed the potential for federalism in which some states have decided to opt out of two major components of the law. you know, opting out of the exchanges and medicaid. they will not be able to fund them. we might see sttes extricate themselves from a lot of the things that they are doing here. neil: i have talked to men and women and they all seem very depressed. but they don't seem like they are enjoying life as a doctor now. i wonder how relevant that is. >> it is pretty rampant. here is the byline to that. to what peter just said, if the states don't extend those exchanges or expand their rosters, remember that the hospitals and doctors working

for them were depending upon the new consumers come in. in order to make up for the money. that is number one. the second hit was yesterday's medicare cuts to the hospital. doctors and hospitals are not happy. neil: all right, meanwhile, the debate hasn't even started. i can already tell you this. this could be mitt romney's

neil: as head of the nonstop business coverage ahead of the debates i can now pass along my conclusion the challenger it matters a lot. the one chance he has to share the same stage with the president. advantage mitt romney eye-to-eye with the presidents. ameritech and see the president they know or that one standing next to him is the one the want to know. is from may up to the challenge dismissing the attacks that the fall the challenger?

that is why a president of there it is up to the challenger to let fleeing this same again as ronald reagan did or confm as in many thought he beat george bush but he lost viewers from the dismisses and condescending performance. al gore huffed and puffed to defeat and nixon sweated a. the debates are as much as what you want versus i you present it. and just to show you have enough to get elected. president of